Deliverance

[sunseeker]

The Sting...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97mSAAzwtv8


I'd like to play a game of “Devils Advocate” today....

The USA continues to create money out of thin air.

The US is endowed with natural resources Energy (oil/gas/coal/uranium etc.), Precious Metals, Non Precious Metals, Agricultural Land/Food etc. So the US is in a probably much better position than just about any other country in the world in that respect.

Block the development of  many discoveries on environmental grounds etc. Much of that the untapped potential is on US Government owned land anyway. Untouched resources for the future.

While everyone else's resources are being used up the USA saving its own.

Why use up your own resources when you can get them for free by just printing as much of the “The Worlds Reserve Currency” as you like? It's the USA's own currency and it's universally accepted as payment for goods in almost every country on earth.

Keynesian Policy only on a much larger scale....
John Maynard Keynes:
“If you owe your bank a hundred pounds, you have a problem. But if you owe a million, it has.”
          As quoted in The Economist (13 February 1982), p. 11

So it's the creditors that have the problem. Not the USA
Eventually the creditors get cold feet. They stop buying US Treasuries, and are reluctant to accept the USD. The US Dollar defaults?

 So what?

It's not as if China etc. can send the bailiffs round to repossess. Is it?
Military action? I don't think so.

So as long as the situation is allowed to continue the US are eating everyone else's cake at zero cost, and when the crunch eventually comes the USA will still have plenty of their own cake. Who said that there's no such thing as a free lunch?

After that event occurs everyone else will then have to pay for US cake with GOLD/SILVER or at least a currency that is solidly backed and credit worthy.

There you have it the biggest con trick in the history of mankind.

ETFs such as SLV (silver) and GLD (gold) will be revealed for what they really are. Just loan notes with no legal entitlement to the metal.

This is likely a reason why page Page 11 of the GLD prospectus states “Neither the Trustee nor the Custodian independently confirms the fineness of the gold allocated to the Trust in connection with the creation of a Basket [issuances].”

http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1267541820.php


Words that should strike fear....
Problems with liquidity, Substitutes etc.
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1266390240.php
Just do what the Icelanders are doing and tell creditors to “Go to hell.”

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/02/iceland-once-again-tells-imf-uk.html

Hurrah. Physical Gold/Silver, and resource company investors make a killing?

Governments all over the world are left holding vast amounts of worthless dollars, and broken societies.

What will they do?

I've already ruled out the bailiffs and military action.
Brand the US a pariah state?
The US is still has it's resources, and military might intact remember?
What might hurt the US deeply could be the backlash from the moralists at home. There will probably be safety issues with US citizens abroad and tighter security at home. However many US citizens might take the view that they've dodged the bullet.  Administrations change and given time distance themselves from previous governments anyway.

One path nations could take would be to take over/nationalise the “New Printing Presses.”
That's all gold and silver mining operations in their country (possibly look to steal weaker countries gold/silver resources).
It's likely that those will be the companies that you're a share holder in.
You loose all title to those investments.

You were smart enough to have bought and held the physical metal. That in itself might cause you problems too. Not just security. There will be an outcry from the masses who missed out on this “Golden Opportunity.” Speculators might become the New Banksters, Economic Terrorists, Market Manipulators, Commodity Criminals, and Traitors.
So you'd have to make sure that you've stashed your PM's in a very safe place, and even then you'll have to spend/exchange the physical in such a way that you wouldn't draw attention to yourself. That might be the most difficult part. Still even storing food has its problems. If you're putting on weight and looking well while everyone else is experiencing food shortages.

Governments may well be sympathetic to the cries of the masses, and do something about that.
High Taxation, SeeCastration (sorry Sequestration),Confiscation etc.

In the meantime there will undoubtedly be political turmoil almost everywhere. Governments will  need to keep their military on side. Pay the military in gold/silver?

http://www.ushistory.org/civ/6b.asp

Finally, a new practice developed in which the army was paid with gold and land. Soldiers no longer fought for the good of the Republic but fought instead for tangible rewards. Gradually, soldiers became more loyal to the generals who could pay them than to the Roman Republic itself. It was within this changing atmosphere that military leaders such as Julius Caesar were able to seize control of and put an end to the Roman Republic.

The US President (*Boy Obama) declares that  Alan Greenspan, and Ben Bernanke are “Heroes Of The Republic” and statues are to be erected in every major city in their honour. 

Deliverance?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEhwIqmmEJY

The US will have only done what every other “Empire” has done throughout history. Exploit other countries for it's own ends.
 
Just saying.

ATB

*Love those videos  which MM posts.

[sidewinder]

While everyone else's resources are being used up the USA saving its own.

I have tried to explain this simple concept to many over the last 30 years or so.  Not sure if I have ever mentioned it here but nonetheless you “broke the code.”

Not so sure the country set out with that as a plan until post WWII IMO but, it certainly seems to have worked to our advantage with all the ballyhoo about environmental concerns.  One can’t help but notice that our consumption has not slowed only where we consume FROM.  

As you said when you or I default we have a date with the constable and the courts.  When sovereign nations or kingdoms default, the only alternative is use of force.  If the debtor happens to be more powerful, that option also may not be a wise thing.  So it’s easy to see who’s still in the driver’s seat.

Now, there may be a case where some hard core leader would claim “Fiat justitia ruat coelum” or Justice at all cost and bump heads with the US but one of the lessons I learned in the military is that discretion is the better part of valor.  

I would never rule out the possibility of social upheaval in a place like China compelling the leaders to go toe to toe with the US simply to save their sorry asses but again I agree that it is unlikely.  On the other hand a personality such as a Kahdaffi or North Korean rat might commit national sucide by attacking the US on any basis if it kept them in power.  

The US will have only done what every other “Empire” has done throughout history. Exploit other countries for it's own ends.
Just saying.

History does indeed repeat itself the key is to see it beforehand not in the midst of running for your life (physically or economically).  

Re:  Deliverance …. I can almost play that on my Yamaha keyboard using the synthesizer, my grandson like to dance to it.  LOL   That kid playing the banjo looks like a cousin back home.

 Finally, a new practice developed in which the army was paid with gold and land.

I have a copy of my Grandfathers application for pension and bounty land grant dated about 1819.  This was awarded to veterans of the Revolutionary War by Congress in 1818, some time after the event and was common to find many of these documents in Virginia where I grew up.  So, that practice is evident in almost all situations involving revolution or regime changes even today.  Same occurred in Vietnam because I met many in Saigon who were from the North and came to Saigon at the close of the war taking possession of former southerners property.  In fact I think that kind of adverse possession in the former South Vietnam is more common that not.  Cambodia the same way.  As they say, to the victor, go the spoils.  Same thing, plunder, just more up front with it and the do gooders cry foul while doing the same thing using other methods.  
  
I’m making some soup and working on a sub-zero freezer right now and don’t have time to expand the comment on the rest of your post but your thoughts are valid IMO as these are the same as I have had for many years.  

[MetalMeister]

Ditto that!  It's getting late here and I just enjoyed reading that one SS.  More later.

SW, what model is that Yamaha keyboard?


Just something to leave with ya'll on this deliverance thing. 

Notice at the end of the tune Ned Beatty comes over to Ronny Cox and tells him to give the boy a couple of bucks...

That is about the attitude of the U.S. to the rest of the world, ya think? 

PS  Actually that is the attitude of TPTB to the rest of the world.  But then they control everybody else over here don't they?

Yes sir, yes sir, three bags full   

[MetalMeister]

Well, I couldn't resist one more thought...   

SS, I did not see the "oil problem" addressed in your post.

Oil is the problem, military is the answer.

Everything else follows from there....

Me thinks!   

[sunseeker]

A glowing endorsement coming from two people with opinions I have nothing but the uppermost respect for.
Thanks.

Oil?
That's a good question.
I happen to think that the US has even more oil than they're letting on. Okay a good deal of it may well be in environmentally sensitive areas. If people start experiencing hardship due to oil shortages the opposition will quickly evaporate.

The also US has refining capacity that other countries presently rely upon.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/27193095/World-Refining-Capacity-by-Country
 
I also think that if any country could up their refining capacity it's the US.
The US is a world leader in every aspect of oil technology and that's valuable.

APART FROM THAT.
There's Nat Gas. The US has plenty.
Run your vehicles/industry on that.

Generate electricity with that gas or nuclear etc., and run electric vehicles.
Electric vehicles have improved in leaps and bounds in recent years.

Just needs more infrastructure to be put in place. Which means employment.

Also we've all heard the stories about oil companies paying for inventions which  could radically reduce our dependence on oil (running vehicles on water etc.) and then doing nothing with them? Well maybe some of those technologies will finally come out of the woodwork?

Yes you still have the military option in place.

FORCE...
The US has the capability to take a country apart without resorting to the nuclear option or even setting foot on foreign soil. A reduction in the nuclear arsenal to make use of the highly enriched “U” for power generation.

BARTER...
As I've already mentioned the US has much of what the world wants.
So you've got a healthy bargaining position  to address shortfalls in any other areas.

Even down to that massive data bank of information/wisdom known as “Sidewinder.” Now there's a bargaining chip for you. 

MM? He can sort out the political mess at home when it's all over. 

ATB 

[Uboat]

Interesting observations, sunseeker. The unknown and deep resources of the US were also underestimated by its adversaries in WWI, WWII and during the cold war.

However, history shows that empires usually crumble and fall from within.  Self destructive tendencies of the US point in that direction, from the shenanigans of the Fed and certain bankers to outside forces buying up US companies, resources and politicians.

[sidewinder]

SW, what model is that Yamaha keyboard?

The one I made reference to is a PSR-730, I have several.  A Korg and another Yamaha (Clavinova).  I'm ready to sell the Clavinova as I don't mess with it at all anymore and it just takes up space. The Korg is somewhere in storage as I prefer the 730.  I just knock around with it and the neat thing about it is simplicity and you can lay down 6 tracks and create your own band LOl. 

[onlooker]

Here’s a cartoon about Predatory Capitalism explained in a fun way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Fzm1hEiDQ

The purpose of carrying out American predatory capitalism in a nutshell:

SS’s quote:

The US is endowed with natural resources Energy (oil/gas/coal/uranium etc.), Precious Metals, Non Precious Metals, Agricultural Land/Food etc. So the US is in a probably much better position than just about any other country in the world in that respect.

Block the development of  many discoveries on environmental grounds etc. Much of that the untapped potential is on US Government owned land anyway. Untouched resources for the future.

While everyone else's resources are being used up the USA saving its own.

Why use up your own resources when you can get them for free by just printing as much of the “The Worlds Reserve Currency” as you like? It's the USA's own currency and it's universally accepted as payment for goods in almost every country on earth.

Can predatory capitalism be stopped?  YES.

Iceland is a developed country with a population just over 300,000.  After John Perkins aired his views about the IMF’s sting operations on countries with valuable resources at Iceland’s talk shows, and university; it's not hard to imagine that many influential Icelanders got his message, and mobilized themselves against the IMF. 

See:  http://www.askbutwhy.com/2009/04/new-john-perkins-video-iceland-imf.html

So, countries should do what Iceland did to predatory lender, IMF:

SS’s quote:

Just do what the Icelanders are doing and tell creditors to “Go to hell.”
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/02/iceland-once-again-tells-imf-uk.html

I suspect Canada is another country that rejected predatory capitalism when it rejected BHP’s bid to takeover Potash Corp.

Tories reject BHP bid for Potash Corp.
By Shawn McCarthy, Steven Chase and Brenda Bouw     Nov 3, 2010

Stephen Harper has blocked one of the most controversial foreign takeovers in Canadian history, a remarkable about-face for an avowed free trader that sends confusing signals on this country’s enthusiasm for outside investment.

But as the bitter debate over the BHP offer played out, Potash Corp. was transformed in the public eye from a relatively obscure business venture into a Canadian corporate jewel in a globally strategic industry.
 
While international investors may be confused by Canada’s decision, many corporate executives applauded it, arguing Canada has for too long been a “boy scout” in international markets while other countries protect their key domestic industries.

“Australia does it, South African does it ... even the United States does it with oil companies,” said Pierre Lassonde, chairman of Franco-Nevada Corp. “It won’t matter to the world save to say, ‘Canada has a spine’– finally.”   

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/potash/tories-reject-bhp-bid-for-potash-corp/article1784212/

It’s very likely that PM Stephen Harper, a holder of a master’s degree in economics understands predatory capitalism.  Hence, unlike a previous spineless PM, he does not roll out the red carpet and engage in a duet of "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling" with multi-billion dollar corporate visitors to Canada.

[MetalMeister]

SW, 

I have a Roland Phantom X8 which I hardly use unless I go to a recording studio.  I've written some stuff over the years and thought I would try to sell it but easier said than done.  Takes time to find the right artist to do your stuff and I don;t have a lot of time...

Usually I play on my baby grand (actually it's a grand but I like to play Billy Joel's "my baby grand".  It's a Kawaii.  Been with me for 32 years now.  I played piano bars after graduate school.  Got tired of that and thought I wanted to fly airplanes in the USAF and that didn't work out either...

SW, what model is that Yamaha keyboard?

The one I made reference to is a PSR-730, I have several.  A Korg and another Yamaha (Clavinova).  I'm ready to sell the Clavinova as I don't mess with it at all anymore and it just takes up space. The Korg is somewhere in storage as I prefer the 730.  I just knock around with it and the neat thing about it is simplicity and you can lay down 6 tracks and create your own band LOl. 

[sunseeker]

I confess that I thought I might stir up something of a hornets net with this post.
The reality hit me like St Paul on the “Road To Damascus.”


Hi UB
Nice to have you surface again.


Hi OL I couldn't get the video content to work for me. If anyone else experienced the same problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ushMvvN8y-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUF25wNQDHg
Plus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvH8tl4y0KE

I'm chief cook/cleaner/washer up today, so I haven't got around to listening myself.
I “know” that it will be interesting. Maybe later when I've got some time to myself.

Hi SW and MM

Musical as well. No end to your talents. Personally, I love music, can't play any instrument unless you include “Air Guitar.” Couldn't carry a tune in a bucket.

Hi Depleted.

Good call earlier in the week. Well done.


Hi Tedsundololes

  ,   ,   ,   ,   ,   ,   ,

Wingding Speak for the market is going down?



Perhaps I read to much into it.


ATB 

[Beginner]

DELIVERANCE   

Have to recognize Sunseeker’s clever interpretation of history combined with stock market relevance.

Sunseeker emphasizes the Roman Empire influence on history.

However, history is bigger than that.  We are all the end products of 2,000 years of Western Judeo Christian Civilization.  Western Civilization absorbed Roman law and order and Greek philosophy and logic but essentially our Western Civilization is Jewish because Christianity is a Jewish religion.

The Greek and Roman Civilizations were already in decay when Constantine decided if you can’t beat ‘em then join ‘em, so, like the good politician he was, he used Christianity to unite his disintegrating Roman Empire in the fourth century.

So we are all a mixture of Greek, Roman and Jew, whether we like it or not, for Jewish messianic Christianity absorbed Greek philosophy and logic and Roman law and jurisprudence.

Messianic Socialism and Communism and Fascism are all promising to lead the world to the Promised Land flowing with milk and honey.  And Hitler said the Jews were not the Chosen People, the Aryans were the Chosen People, the elite of Divine Providence, the Herrenvolk, the Master Race.  Hitler didn’t recognize his own Jewishness.  Hitler did not have an original idea in his head. 

The meaning of modern history is not only about Roman imperialism but is more about the attempt of man to see himself as god or god-becoming.  Of course, first man has to conquer all the mysteries of the universe, not just climb the highest mountain or plumb the deepest ocean, but conquer all the mysteries of the universe including time and space, conquer the last enemy, death, and penetrate the mystery of life.

Sunseeker’s tiny little sea-faring nation, England, believed they were one of the lost tribes of Israel.  Sword in one hand and bible in the other, the English conquered one quarter of the planet.  During the Second World War the exhausted British handed over the terrible burden of history to the US.  And, as Sunseeker points out, the US is still not close to exhaustion.

Remember: “Eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge and ye surely shall not die but become as God.”  That was the serpent in the Garden of Eden talking to Adam and Eve.

Modern, 21st century man is still inspired by ancient biblical myths?

Read “Greek, Roman and Jew” by Fredric Lohr to be found here:
http://www.pathcom.com/~seans/   

 

[sidewinder]

I have a Roland Phantom X8 which I hardly use unless I go to a recording studio.

I am far away from any recording other than what the machine and computer can do.  I just piddle for fun and grins. 

I like that display on the Roland.  I think I will sell my other two as they just take up space.  But first need to get rid of my air guitar.  Check it out on Craigslist 

http://rmn.craigslist.org/msg/2230028306.html

[MetalMeister]

Ah, BG, I of course found this interesting and looked at the website but 20 minutes of reading did not developed a concrete opinion of just what the London Forum was intended to do and its motivation for being.  Read the intros and a few speeches but they seemed conflagrating so I gave up.

We are also products of socialism, Nazism, Marxist philosophy, and communism.  All have permeated through our culture and the culture that founded the U.S. is virtually non-existent anymore.

However, history is bigger than that.  We are all the end products of 2,000 years of Western Judeo Christian Civilization.  Western Civilization absorbed Roman law and order and Greek philosophy and logic but essentially our Western Civilization is Jewish because Christianity is a Jewish religion.

Constantine used the "appearance" of Christianity, not the real thing.  He USED real Christians but history shows us most of them were not in the Catholic church as that is systematically devoid of doctrine built on scripture but built on men in charge successfully using the people and teaching things that bear little, in any resemblance to biblical Christianity.

The Greek and Roman Civilizations were already in decay when Constantine decided if you can’t beat ‘em then join ‘em, so, like the good politician he was, he used Christianity to unite his disintegrating Roman Empire in the fourth century.

So we are all a mixture of Greek, Roman and Jew, whether we like it or not, for Jewish messianic Christianity absorbed Greek philosophy and logic and Roman law and jurisprudence.

Interesting, but what Hitler did not know was what true Christianity was.  Impossible to be a true Christian and go around killing people in other lands taken by force and killing Jews, in particular.

Messianic Socialism and Communism and Fascism are all promising to lead the world to the Promised Land flowing with milk and honey.  And Hitler said the Jews were not the Chosen People, the Aryans were the Chosen People, the elite of Divine Providence, the Herrenvolk, the Master Race.  Hitler didn’t recognize his own Jewishness.  Hitler did not have an original idea in his head. 

Man is trying to accomplish what the scriptures told us was true over 2000 years ago.  Agreed that man is trying to become god like, with a little 'g'. 

The meaning of modern history is not only about Roman imperialism but is more about the attempt of man to see himself as god or god-becoming.  Of course, first man has to conquer all the mysteries of the universe, not just climb the highest mountain or plumb the deepest ocean, but conquer all the mysteries of the universe including time and space, conquer the last enemy, death, and penetrate the mystery of life.

Actually they are one or more of the lost tribes of Israel.  Extensive research has gone into finding the roots of the lost 10 tribes.  Here are interviews with an author who has done this research:  http://www.youtube.com/user/GavinFinley#p/u/38/7x4AuGYuZHw

IMHO, the handoff was actually done in the American Revolution.  That is where those claiming to be true Christians revolted against the crown.  True Christians would not revolt that way and take human life.  They would protect themselves if someone entered their house uninvited but as far as revolution there is nothing in the New Testament to support that action.  So the Pilgrims and Puritans came to the US.  The Pilgrims were peace loving and nonviolent and the Puritans were the holders of the Bible and the sword and while they said they were peace loving they were not.  They had led their own revolt against the crown in England and basically won but control ended up back with the crown so they were quick to jump ship and comes where they could enforce their will.  There are plenty of them left who still like to enforce their will around the world.  US interventionism comes to mind here.  It is never for the sake of spreading the truths of the Bible but for the sake of insuring their on economic well being.  Anti-Christian, I would go so far as to say.  Nevertheless, the Puritans left the US with the government they left us and that is what descendants have to work with and I believe that the outworking of Biblical principles in society is a good thing, however, recognizing that many/most have used it for their own personal gain in varying degrees.

Sunseeker’s tiny little sea-faring nation, England, believed they were one of the lost tribes of Israel.  Sword in one hand and bible in the other, the English conquered one quarter of the planet.  During the Second World War the exhausted British handed over the terrible burden of history to the US.  And, as Sunseeker points out, the US is still not close to exhaustion.

They are not myths, they really happened.  Too much proof out there to think they are myths.  Problem is most people know nothing of the proof that is out there.

Remember: “Eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge and ye surely shall not die but become as God.”  That was the serpent in the Garden of Eden talking to Adam and Eve.

Modern, 21st century man is still inspired by ancient biblical myths?

[MetalMeister]

I just carry my laptop into whatever room, like the kitchen, I am working in and play them vid's whilst I work.   

I'm chief cook/cleaner/washer up today, so I haven't got around to listening myself.
I “know” that it will be interesting. Maybe later when I've got some time to myself.

Hi SW and MM

Musical as well. No end to your talents. Personally, I love music, can't play any instrument unless you include “Air Guitar.” Couldn't carry a tune in a bucket.

[MetalMeister]

I love it when you play the devil's advocate!

The problem I see is that the US's Achilles's heel is oil.

If we default then the USD will be revalued with this basket of currencies and then it will be payback time by the creditor nations.  I think it will not be so much the Western nations but the developing nations that will exercise payback.

Another problem with using our natural resources ourselves is that it costs much more for us to pay Americans to harvest them than it does for those derived products to come from the developing countries meaning once we start developing our own resources again then it brings us to more of a par with other nations around the world and our living standard goes down.  That's part of what it is all about is the vicious circle of the US living standard and that of developed nations as well.  Insatiable it IS.

But the oil is the crux and to ensure our ability in that arena will soon require military force and I think we will certainly see it used in Saudi Arabia (I have not read the news yet today   ).

So that is why I believe we will see war with Israel and Syria in a matter of weeks or months because Iran and Syria would like nothing better than to disrupt the US oil supply thus crippling the US economy.  Conversely, the US would like nothing better than to remove Iran as a threat and get Iranian oil once again denominated in US dollars.

ONe has to remember that people and institutions in the US hold far more US bonds than do the rest of the world.  Default would be very painful for the US in so many ways and the first one is the currency not having the value as it does now to purchase all the oil it needs.  With a US severe currency devaluation not only will the US greatly lose purchasing power of oil around the world but also Canada.  At some point it becomes economical for Canada to export to other nations rather than the US.

Bring on Armageddon!!! 

I'd like to play a game of “Devils Advocate” today....

The USA continues to create money out of thin air.

The US is endowed with natural resources Energy (oil/gas/coal/uranium etc.), Precious Metals, Non Precious Metals, Agricultural Land/Food etc. So the US is in a probably much better position than just about any other country in the world in that respect.

Block the development of  many discoveries on environmental grounds etc. Much of that the untapped potential is on US Government owned land anyway. Untouched resources for the future.

While everyone else's resources are being used up the USA saving its own.

Why use up your own resources when you can get them for free by just printing as much of the “The Worlds Reserve Currency” as you like? It's the USA's own currency and it's universally accepted as payment for goods in almost every country on earth.

Keynesian Policy only on a much larger scale....
John Maynard Keynes:
“If you owe your bank a hundred pounds, you have a problem. But if you owe a million, it has.”
          As quoted in The Economist (13 February 1982), p. 11

So it's the creditors that have the problem. Not the USA
Eventually the creditors get cold feet. They stop buying US Treasuries, and are reluctant to accept the USD. The US Dollar defaults?

*Love those videos  which MM posts.