Deliverance

[sunseeker]

SW,

Looking forward to the expanded, cleaned up version!

I tell everyone I know to get out of everything they are in cash in and get into some form of commodity.  Most people simply say 'yeah, yeah' and do not listen.   

Any idea what happens if you have money in an IRA and it is invested in individual stocks and the government starts looking for funds for their fatness?


SS,

How did you 'move' a pension?

Isn't that irrevocably tied to the company?

Hi MM

I think that it's still the case....
You can move the pension pot from your employment with you to your new employer or leave it with your old one.

At that point in time I knew that the company I worked for was about to agree a lucrative contract, and the other party had specifically asked my employer to contract me out to them. I didn't leave them with much of a choice. They did drag their feet though. I pressed them on a weekly basis for 5 months. Apparently documents kept going astray. Turning up late etc. but I got there.

Whilst working on that contract I discovered through the senior management of the company I was contracted to that my employer was forging ties with another company. This involved a joint venture to amalgamate both work forces. Build a business park and move to new premises.
Any guesses as to how he said all this was being funded?
The pension trustees were also the managing directors of the company I worked for.
All perfectly legal and above board.

Then this........
Not too long after the stock market was hit by 9 11. Two people retired whilst I was working away on that contract (just over 1 year). I was told that they were told that their pensions were well below expectations because of 9 11. Sorry. Bad luck. Bad timing.
I've no proof, but I happen to believe that all of the pension scheme was tied up outside the stock market at that point in time.

From that point on I paid the absolute bare minimum into a pension.
I invested for my/our future. At least with my own investments I'll always know exactly where I stand. I don't make any charges for administration either.

The alternative?
Not to have a clue where you stand.
Under performance.
Pay exorbitant charges for the privilege.
The returns you could expect assuming unrealistic growth from our less than competent management style.

ATB

[MetalMeister]

Thanks for your excellent, excellent input gentlemen!

I have an excellent pension that I will not be able to collect from for quote some years away when I turn 65.  I have been thinking, as of late, that it would be most palatable to have some or all of that money in my hands rather than in their hands.

Ever heard of anyone getting their money out of a fund early by reaching a settlement with the company?

Ever heard of someone being able to take money out for hardship cases like a medical emergency or something?

Just throwing some ideas out to see if I jog your noodles into thinking along my best interests!

It has occurred to me, considering this world situation, that it would be most beneficial to take all that cash and put it mostly in metal and maybe deposit it in another country...

Again, thanks mucho for your thoughts!  My gain!

 

Any idea what happens if you have money in an IRA and it is invested in individual stocks and the government starts looking for funds for their fatness?

The government can take ANYTHING it wants for ANY citizen or group of citizens.  Never forget that.  Just because we have made it a hundred years or so without suffering the central planners does not mean in any way that all this which we accept as the "norm" cannot change in a matter of days.  Not years but days.
 

How did you 'move' a pension?

I know that was addressed to SS but, some can be moved.  The problem with defined benefits programs like we had was the company likes to keep control of the money and invests it.  ERISA requires a certain level of funding take place and when the markets or whatever the company has the money tied up in is booming the returns can and are used to boost the account and the increase is the annual funding.  However when the markets and other investments the fund is tied up in fail or lose money then the company has to come up with the cash.  It is then they squawk and seek contract modifications, pay reductions or no scheduled raises etc. 

Years ago I was on our Retirement and insurance committee and the first thing I did was write resolutions to gain control over out own funds.  We "shopped" the pension fund (which was not an easy thing to do because of it's size) and the whole thing went nowhere as the company IMO "bought off" some of the players who sold the the idea as "not doable".  (years later of course we find out why) 

Bottom line is, the larger an organization gets and with the passage of time the fund and it's obligations become very large.  So large in fact that some would do almost anything to control and destroy a company to abrogate the obligation. 

Retirement funds are in a trust, it just depends on how much you can trust the trustee.  In my lifetime I can honestly say that I have never seen a trustee that can be trusted with 100% certainty.   I don't know how I can make it any clearer.  If your fate and retirement is tied to any company or government it is at all times in a position of risk.  Of course, these things don't happen that frequently or otherwise nobody on the planet would fall for the retirement schemes.  BUT, these games are being played on a daily basis and are more widespread than one might think. 

Hi MM

I think that it's still the case....
You can move the pension pot from your employment with you to your new employer or leave it with your old one.

At that point in time I knew that the company I worked for was about to agree a lucrative contract, and the other party had specifically asked my employer to contract me out to them. I didn't leave them with much of a choice. They did drag their feet though. I pressed them on a weekly basis for 5 months. Apparently documents kept going astray. Turning up late etc. but I got there.

Whilst working on that contract I discovered through the senior management of the company I was contracted to that my employer was forging ties with another company. This involved a joint venture to amalgamate both work forces. Build a business park and move to new premises.
Any guesses as to how he said all this was being funded?
The pension trustees were also the managing directors of the company I worked for.
All perfectly legal and above board.

Then this........
Not too long after the stock market was hit by 9 11. Two people retired whilst I was working away on that contract (just over 1 year). I was told that they were told that their pensions were well below expectations because of 9 11. Sorry. Bad luck. Bad timing.
I've no proof, but I happen to believe that all of the pension scheme was tied up outside the stock market at that point in time.

From that point on I paid the absolute bare minimum into a pension.
I invested for my/our future. At least with my own investments I'll always know exactly where I stand. I don't make any charges for administration either.

The alternative?
Not to have a clue where you stand.
Under performance.
Pay exorbitant charges for the privilege.
The returns you could expect assuming unrealistic growth from our less than competent management style.

[sidewinder]

Well, maybe.    ......................................... I've no idea what sort of pension scheme you have but most I have seen become vested at some point certain and usually after 50 YOA if you terminate with the company it is yours to do with as you see fit.  don't know about putting something off until 65. 

Ever heard of anyone getting their money out of a fund early by reaching a settlement with the company?

There are ways and then there are ways. 

I know some guys that got divorced prior to and as the BK was going down at my company.  They did this intentionally so they could "settle" with spouses.  50% of the lump sum and 50% of the valuation of the balance was awarded to the spouse through the divorce court.  Spouse collected the money, banked it and at some point the couples reconciled and remarried if they desired.  These were the smart ones and the wife and I actually discussed this maneuver but in the end decided against it.  Stupid us, It would have meant over 180k in the bank that was lost along with all the rest.  At least in her bank account LOL she might have taken a powder coming into that much cash at once who knows.  Anyway there are ways, if you know what I mean.  You just have to be creative and think outside the “box”.