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richmanch
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« on: January 05, 2008, 04:38:48 PM »

I like the strategy--20% off the high. It's less arbitrary than 20% from when I happened to buy them.

For me, I have around 20 uranium stocks, so babysitting all of them this way would be kind of difficult, especially since I'm back to work this week and some days won't even be able to check the action until the end of the day.

I'd like to get my portfolio to the point that I could just throw some salt on it and come back to it in April. I bet if I did that now, I'd be better off than "managing" it on a day to day, week to week basis--if only because I'd save myself a lot of time and aggravation. I suppose I'd miss out on the education part.

Moral of the story: I think we're going higher, though the going will be rough, and the gains will be somewhat muted by the increasingly bleak US economic picture. If, by some act of god, the S & P could manage a 10% gain by April--we'll be kings.








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john77
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2008, 08:47:42 PM »

We'll see if that S&P gain of 10% will happen if there is an emergency rate cut, along with the rate cut at the Fed. Lord help us folks who are fully invested if they only cut 25 basis points though! For those who aren't fully long, and people who have cash, playing short or going long the QID would be an option if the Fed doesn't appease the masses.

The long term story of the commodities remains though. Doug Galland who writes the Room for Casey seems to think we may be entering the mania phase of the gold bull, and maybe that will give a bit of a kick for the uranium sector also. But still, uranium doesn't know if it wants to follow gold, follow oil, or follow the general market. One things for sure, when the market tanks, uranium stocks know where to go as well.

Fundamentally speaking, you may be right Richmanch in leaving the portfolio alone may be a good step. If you ignore price action of PDN, UEX, and DML over the last year, do they look cheap, based on what nuclear demand there is out there? And if they look cheap, is it worth holding the core through a bear market? I think so.

Though its incredibly annoying to hold during a bear market.

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davidslane
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2008, 05:28:47 PM »

I'm starting to feel more and more that we're not going to see uranium do anything substantial ("mania-like") until November 2008.

I just think the US economy and weak US markets will hold speculative stocks back.

And uranium needs another year of supply draw-downs to really get the supply/demand balance out of whack.


Basically, 18 months of consolidation (from last spring) would be great for uranium.


So, how to play:

- Expect a good rally to start the year as the US Fed cuts rates and uraniums recover from a horribly oversold condition
- Sell speculative positions into this rally and sit that money out until the Fall (or use it elsewhere)
- Hold a Core position in the bigger uranium companies throughout


But, who wants to sell out there speculative positions at 20%+ under the highs.

If you think a top will come in March or April, then look for a one to two week period when new highs aren't made, then sell, regardless of whether you are 5% under the high or 20% under the high.

You hopefully will get closer to the top than waiting for a 20% pull back from the high.

Here's my previous write-up on how to get close to the top for uranium stocks in the spring.
http://buy-high-sell-higher.com/forum/when-to-sell/when-to-sell-winners-and-losers-me-first-me-first-t648.0.html;msg3228#msg3228


Granted, if the markets have another commodity crash like last Feb/Mar, then all bets are off.


Good luck all!
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 05:31:42 PM by davidslane » Logged
langman57
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2008, 09:01:46 PM »

I'm still trying to figure out how JDH is getting 7% on treasuries.
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richmanch
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« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2008, 11:47:00 PM »

Lang,

He's already got a 3 or 4% gain for the year, so he'd just add 3 or 4 % from the t-bills he could "ride" for the rest of the year.

But he's not doing that, because than he'd have to change the name of this forum to BUY T BILLS AND GO TO SLEEP.











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sunseeker
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2008, 12:08:34 PM »

Not wishing to split hairs on this one but if JDH has made 4% so far this year. Then for every $100 invested he has made $4 (100*104/100=104). So if he put his portfolio into fixed interest at 4% then every $104 would become $108.16 for every $100 originally invested (104*104/100= 108.16). Therefore a 8.16% gain. The wonders of compound interest.
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sunseeker
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2008, 09:24:01 AM »

I should also have added that it would only take a 3.846% drop for the JDH portfolio to go back to where it was (104*-3.846/100=3.999). The reality of compound interest in reverse.

To assume that a upswing, and a downward swing of equal proportion leaves you back at square one is common mistake that investors make. If your stocks keep on swinging up, and down by roughly the same proportion, then you will loose over time. The bigger the moves the more pronounced that downward effect will be.

That is why you should  keep a watchful eye on your portfolio at all times. The way that I think that you should invest is a though you have to make a living out of it. After all the most successful investors do just that. One guy I met who traded for a living told me after a bad spell “That’s me on baked beans for awhile. That will focus my mind somewhat”. So the lesson to be learned is that losses should focus the mind, much more than profits.

My mind is very focused today as I have took a bit hit on Hochschild (LSE:HOC) down +25%. Not the sort of thing that you expect from a big producer. It just goes to show though that mining stocks, no matter how big, or small are not immune from unexpected bad news. Ho hum, play the game, expect some pain. I hope that you will all be fairing better than that today.
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bluefish621
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2008, 06:04:19 PM »

We've certainly had some rough weeks already. The general mutual funds that millions of people have in their pension funds are certainly down recently, plus the house is down plus the vacation home, plus bills are higher for oil and gas.
I'm not happy holding U jrs that are not doing well, but...
the PM holdings are doing well and the cash in the portfolio is holding up, I feel pretty healthy and I'm still working.
I await the Dines letter but I'm following the news too,
Good luck,
Ron
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Croaker
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« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2008, 09:39:25 PM »

I have to agree with JDH on this weeks comments on discipline.

Hoping for the bull market to come back as your stocks are dropping like a "Led Zeppelin" and wishing it was the "Stairway to Heaven" will make anyone "Dazed and Confused" because you have a "Communication Breakdown" hoping for and not for the "Good Times Bad Times".  As the market/economy slows or goes/going into a recession we "Ramble On" of being "Sick Again" about our stocks being in the red. The "Song Remains the Same" unless we stick to Discipline, but our "Your Time will Come" and "We're Gonna Groove" again with discipline and there will be a "Whole lotta Love" back on this board as we manage our stocks in the black and not the red.

Now back to reality. If it wasn't for my Gold/Silver stocks all my stocks would be in the red. Like JDH, I got caught in the Tidel Wave for the big returns and left my discipline behind. As I stated in an earlier post, I will get out of most of my Uraniums stocks and only keep maybe 5 to 10 of them and maintain a much larger position in cash since I believe this is going to be one wild year for the market.

I am hoping for a big bump when the Fed cuts rates again so I can sell. Then stick to my guns/discipline!!!

I am hoping for 50 basis points cut.



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Dr George
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« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2008, 12:19:13 AM »

Unfortunately, if you look at the fed funds futures, most of the cuts are already priced in.
At this point, I think Wall St. is sick and disappointed with the Fed, and they realize that no amount of rate cuts is going to spur the economy.
The Fed is parading around like it is king of the markets and can control the whole American economy with .25/.5%??? Is it mad?
The Fed can't help and the big firms have now realized this. I wouldn't count on that rate cut rally anymore.
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richmanch
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« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2008, 01:51:57 AM »

I agree--anything less than a .5 cut will send the markets reeling, at least for a few days. We're not going to get surprised by a big cut this time and shoot up 3% in the general market.

But, we're not going to go down a few percentage points every week either. We're due, at least, for a good, decent week.

Does MGA have more down side? Of course it's possible, though I'm not betting on it. Which will it hit: $2 or $4? That's the question here, isn't it? I think we can all agree that it's not going to suddenly stabilize and trade in a tight range for twelve months.


Croaker, I can't believe you couldn't squeeze in a "trampled under foot"...

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sunseeker
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2008, 08:07:03 AM »

Re; JDH.
I applaud you for implementing a stop loss system. As I have said before I think everyone should have one based on their own personal risk profile, and not someone else‘s.

I will however add one other proviso, and that is if you find at anytime that you are overtrading then stop. Do some virtual trading for a while until you are confident that the market is running in your favour again. This is because you are either investing in the wrong sector, or the market as a whole is at best going nowhere. No system will work well in all market conditions.

Don’t let brokerage charges eat into your profits, or extend your losses unnecessarily.
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Croaker
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« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2008, 09:32:44 AM »

Dr. G,

   I agree the Fed is going to do very little to get the economy rolling again for a long time, but they are going to put the economy in a worse state with the rate cuts. Until the people pull themselves out of less debt so they have more money to spend, it isn't going to happen.  Easy credit equals more debt.

Richmanch,

   It took all I had to figure how to put the others in. Maybe next time I will use Black Sabbath, that will make an interesting read Cheesy Cheesy
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davidslane
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« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2008, 11:11:38 AM »

For JDH,

Let's say you find a junior resource stock you want to buy.

Good fundamentals.  Over sold.  Chart showing a bottoming pattern.  Lots of recovery room to run.  Drilling results coming in a few months.  A great over sold buy.

But the stock is 50% off its highs.  Maybe 60% off.
It has suffered from irrational selling.


So you buy it.

And then you sell the stock the next day because it is down over 20% from its high and your rule says to sell all stocks more than 20% off its high.


That's what you just did with Mega, JNR and Cash.


You can't just implement a new rule and have it apply to existing stocks that the rule wasn't written for.


Your 20% rule works great for trying to determine the exit point on a swing trade.
Meaning, figuring out when a stock you're in has topped out in a short term bull market rally. And with a swing trade, I would use 5%, not 20%.



But, if you're holding a long term stock (not a swing trade), the rules should be different.
Uranium resource stocks should run at some point in the next 2 to 3 years.


When, we don't know.

So, you should either hold the best based on fundamentals or you should not be in uranium resource stocks and use that money somewhere else.


I would have different rules for different types of stocks.
A 20% fall off of highs for a large cap is a good indication to sell.

But with junior resource stocks, if the fundamentals are still good, you got to give them time to explode (that's why we're in them). A 50% drop is normal.  If you keep selling them when they drop 20%, you will find yourself with lots of 20% losses that will add up quickly.  And you won't be in the stocks when they explode upwards.

Many of us had these incredible 100% years the past few years and we are now so impatient when our stocks don't repeat that year to year.  If you want big returns, play the junior miners in an ongoing bull market, and be patient.  If you can't handle big short term losses while waiting, switch to large caps and be happy with 15% annual returns.

And if you want to swing trade, great.  But buy low and sell high.  Don't sell after the 80% drop.  That's when you buy.

Selling Mega, JNR and Cash at what look to be consolidation lows right before the best months of the year (seasonally) shows a flaw in your strategy.

If you didn't sell them when they were 20% below their highs in May, then it is too late to apply your rule to them.

Now you need to apply your buying rule to them, not your selling rule.
Are these good stocks with room to run over the next few years and is this a good buying point.  For Mega and JNR, I say yes.  Not sure Cash passes the "good" stock requirement.


Let me leave you all with you excerpts from this week's Casey's Room:

Quote

[Excerpt from a e-mail from Rick Rule to Casey's David Galland}

Sick of resource stocks underperforming? Absolutely. I had a long conversation with a client today who was disappointed in the recent performance of her portfolio. I told her that a big part of the problem is unrealistic expectations on the part of investors. Junior exploration companies have no gold, so why should they go higher simply because gold prices go up? Yes, it happens for a while because individual investors either don’t differentiate between a producer and an exploration company, or they don’t fully understand the miniscule odds of an economic discovery being made by one of these companies.

But at some point, the companies must discover something to justify their inflated market caps, and most won’t. When one of them actually does find something, the market is definitely there (witness Canplats and Diamonds North). Maybe that’s what it will take to reignite the juniors – a Diamond Fields-type discovery that moves a stock by 100 times. Personally, I think that’s the phase of the market we are in now. Higher gold prices just don’t matter to companies with no gold.

Another problem has been the amount of new paper being issued by this sector. Lots of our clients sell because they need money to fund the next placement. Demand for junior resource stocks is being fed by companies issuing new shares, not by accumulation in the secondary market. Good for the companies, as well-fed treasuries are important, but frustrating for existing investors because all that buying has no immediate impact on the market price of the stock.



In uranium, the easy money was made when ever stock went up with no news for three years.  Not sure if we'll ever see that again.  That ended last April.

In the next phase, the stocks with real prospects and producers will run up (these should run up more than their counterparts did in the easy money phase).  When will this start, I think it starts now and goes for 2 to 3 years.  It will be slow and unnoticeable for pats, but it will happen.  It will be the Wall of Worry phase ending with the mania phase around 2010.

Not sure if gold juniors already finished their easy money phase or not.

All I know is that I'm not giving up on uranium juniors, but I no longer hold 61 uranium juniors expecting they will all double.  I'm down to 34 of the best and still trying to whittle that down.





If you've made it this far, let me leave you with my pity story of the year.

In the spring of 2006, I continually bought puts on Countrywide Financial (CFC).  20 some contracts at the $30 level for Jan. 2007, when the stock was trading in the 40's.  I knew the stock sucked and would come crashing down.  I was hoping to make a fortune if the company went under.  But timing is everything.  I lost a bunch on money waiting.  The markets rallied July of 2006 (thanks Hank Paulson --- US Treasury Sec).  So I took my losses.

But I knew the trade was right.  Long term CFC was a horrible company and would be caught up in the mortgage meltdown.  I bought more CFC puts into 2007.  $30 puts for Jan 18, 2008.  10 more contracts to try again.

But I got frustrated when CFC kept buying back their stock and propping it up.  A rumor that B of A would buy the company in March 2007 shot the stock higher.  The stock was trading at $42 in April and I dumped my puts for a small loss again frustrated that my trade wasn't working.

Of course, CFC traded under $6 this week.  And those $30 puts I dumped out of frustration at $1 in April 2007, traded at $around 24 this week.  I bought them at $2.  That would have been a x12 trade.  How many of those do you ever see.


We all feel uranium will explode when the supply/demand crunch really hits hard and those countries that don't care about environmental laws, like China and India, keep building new plants and don't have uranium to run them.  And then we have Sovereign Wealth Funds buying up small uranium companies.

The fundamentals have not changed from 2003 with uranium.
So why shouldn't we wait with the best companies in our portfolios for the trade to materialize as we expect.


Patience is the key to let your trades materialize to match your long term expectations.
Leave your trades too early because of small to even large losses means you won't be in the trade when your long term expectations finally hit.


This is a lesson we all need to learn more!
(Expecially me)


[I also dumped the puts I bought on MTG and XLF at the same time as I dumped the CFC puts I bought.  Right idea, bad timing.  Which is why I can't buy options anymore, I don't have the right emotional temperment.  I need to let my long term trades do their things.]

« Last Edit: January 13, 2008, 12:29:44 PM by davidslane » Logged
maxine
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2008, 01:30:39 PM »

Some good news just out:
Uranium One gets build approval for Australian mine.
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssIndustryMaterialsUtilitiesNews/idUSN1551358120080115
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