Occam's Razor

[MetalMeister]

Ouch!  Cut myself with the razor...

The Vette was always my dream car growing up (and partially for that express purpose, namely chics).  My 3 cousin's all got brand spankin new Vettes when they turned 16.  Their dad owned several textile mills.  But, I've never allowed myself to get one, yet...

Me, I had to deliver years of papers by bicycle before I scrapped up enough money to get a o0ld, old 62 Karmann-Ghia  convertible that was about to die, and did so several times.  I should have kept it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jbqziF0Gt8&feature=player_embedded

That's a 63 but looks just like mine for what I remember.

Chance?  As in a bet?  There is no random chance in this game.  Takes a leap of faith.  Ockham did not seem to get it from what I read. 

But, if you can prove there is not the existence the ONLY God that exists, then you have nothing to lose...

But that only God has laid down millions of physical clues for his existence:

http://creationwiki.org/

http://www.examiner.com/x-35826-Creationism-Examiner~y2010m2d12-Documentary-planned-to-prove-events-of-Bible

Signing off...  Zzzzzzzzzzzz...

If really good thinkers such as Plato, Socrates and old William of Ockham can't Provide the answers I would simply take the position concerning the question of God's existence as;  Why take a chance?   What is to be gained by denying his/her/it's existence.  So, I accept God's existence just not necessarily yours. 

[sidewinder]

Chance?  As in a bet?  There is no random chance in this game.  Takes a leap of faith.  Ockham did not seem to get it from what I read. 

Faith ... that's pretty much what Old Billy said isn't it.  Then as all philosophers do as to the explanation.

If I recall Ockham didn't write a whole bunch of stuff down because remember, the Church (as in the powerful group who had taken this leap of faith) in those days had the habit of tossing a big BBQ at the expense of those who might stir things up and cause any doubt. 

[Bottomfeeder]

Here you go SW......

A big spoon for that pot.

[MetalMeister]

Ah, but watch this nuance....

Remember the book I said I read about 30 years ago?

It pretty much shows that the Catholic Church is mostly not Christian.  May be a few souls there that are but they are not in charge of anything or they have left the "Church" of Rome already for truly green pastures.

There is nothing in the New Testament about holding big BBQs.  And it's not just the Catholic Church either.  Have to remember out of 65 million Germans in Nazi Germany 45 million were Protestants, almost all taken over by the government.  The true Christians there were pretty much killed off over time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietrich_Bonhoeffer

So, in conclusion, if most of the Catholics and the Protestants were not Christians then what is there left?

History is a wonderful thing!

Chance?  As in a bet?  There is no random chance in this game.  Takes a leap of faith.  Ockham did not seem to get it from what I read. 

Faith ... that's pretty much what Old Billy said isn't it.  Then as all philosophers do as to the explanation.

If I recall Ockham didn't write a whole bunch of stuff down because remember, the Church (as in the powerful group who had taken this leap of faith) in those days had the habit of tossing a big BBQ at the expense of those who might stir things up and cause any doubt. 

[sidewinder]

I just stumbled over that website by chance.  The have an interesting take on the history of the world no doubt. 

The one I found interesting was the account of Vietnam.  I remember well the Assassination of Diem and his brother.  Forgot that Kennedy was killed 20 days after the event giving us two Catholic presidents assassinated in a 20 day period.  Then the Papal changes in this rather short period of time leading up to the US inflow of troops and church position on SE Asia makes for some interesting further research.  This portion is very interesting reading although it is a book.
 
http://www.reformation.org/vietnam.html

My arrival there was some two years after the majority of this stuff happened but the locals talked about exactly what is described here as what had been going on.  It was then, as to a certain degree it remains,  a confusing place.  this little book has jogged my memory about many things during that time I had not considered in years. 

I will say this.  Regardless of the leanings of the government there, those people have been enjoying a period of relative peace such that generations before had never seen.  Not saying it's a good peace just saying there are no bombs going off and one can feel personally safe in the major cities, and I actually roamed the country side at will almost every time I was there as of say the last 10 years. 

Also a subject that always can make me stop and read is Tesla.  They have much on him. 

 

[MetalMeister]

Yeah, I read one of Manhatten's books in the 80s.  Vatican Moscow Alliance.  And there was another one that was mostly about the Vatican and Nazi Germany but I cannot remember the name.  Huge amounts of literature have been written about the Catholic church/Vatican, over time.

Tesla is always fascinating to me.  He was amazing.  I think he was especially wired up somehow.  Maybe he had some form of static electricity that gave him his genius?   

Are you referring to anyone in particular when you say "they", for information on Tesla?

http://www.reformation.org/vietnam.html

Also a subject that always can make me stop and read is Tesla.  They have much on him. 

[Beginner]

MORE ABOUT OCCAM'S RAZOR

We had a First World War.  Then we had a Second World.  Then we had a Cold War.  Now we have a war against terror.  Maybe wars are stepping stones to the New World Order and we would all love to see a New World Order.  A New World Order would be much better than the present world chaos..

Who was behind all these wars?  The Vatican or Washington?  No doubt religions play a great part in history.  But as Stalin once observed when someone warned him not to upset the Vatican:  “The Vatican?  How many divisions does the Vatican have?”

And that about sums up the political and military power and might of the Vatican in this so-called advanced age of modern civilisation. However, if I want to write a best seller, then, of course, the Vatican will be a central ingredient.  Dan Brown will tell you all about it.

As I see it:  The Cold War worked fine so long as folk paid their taxes for the military industrial complexes of the Soviet Union and the West (mainly the US military industrial complex) so the two great powers could compete with each other in nuclear research, jet engine research, space research and whatever else interests military industrial complexes of both sides.  Professor Arnold Toynbee called it Challenge and Response, the psychology of how history advances.

But when the people no longer believe in the Cold War and no longer want to pay taxes for the Cold war, then it becomes necessary to have a hot war to arouse patriotism and national fervour.  That is the psychology of hot and cold wars.  The upkeep of the military industrial complexes must be maintained at whatever cost.

So when the US respresentatives, reflecting the will of the people, sought a reduction in taxes, then John Foster Dulles visited the 29th Parallel in Korea and announced that Korea was outside the perimeter of defense.  Truman echoed those sentiments.  Various other important political figures repeated the message.  The North Koreans aren’t deaf.  They were listening.  One brave morning North Korea troops penetrated into South Korea.  (As they were meant to do). After all, it was theirs for the taking - outside the perimeter of defense.  Thus commenced the Korean War.  The UN was called in, by the US (and the UN force was composed mainly of US troops).

The military industrial budget suddenly began to fill up and to overflowing as patriotism and nationalism and fear aroused the American people back to their proper Cold War MAD (Mutual Atom Destruction) condition.  But it had to take a hot war and 50,000 American lives and three million Korean lives to keep the military industrial budgets up to par.

You may like to blame the Vatican for the Vietnam War and Washington will be most grateful to you for covering up for them but it was all, in the final analysis, part of the hot War/Cold War game of keeping the military industrial budgets up to par, all about ridding the US military warehouses of ancient armaments and to replace them with more modern up-to-date weapons. More bombs were dropped on Vietnam than were dropped all through the Second World War.  Again it cost about 50,000 US lives and some 4 million Vietnamese lives to keep the budget up to par.  And, of course, every generation has to go through its baptism by fire.  And all old vets love discussing their military service and heroic experiences.

Maybe its’ time the moderator stepped in because this web page is going off topic.  Unless I can recommend some war stocks that are going real cheap these days.

[sidewinder]

Yes father Beginner...

Your obedient servant ................  NOT

[sidewinder]

Oh, and if fellows like Spellman and those who support and/or control the likes,  don't want to become topics of discussion;  or suffer the ire of those who have had to bear witness to the brutal results of their political meddling; then perhaps they should not exceed the bounds they rightfully possess.

We bash politicians here all the time.  Why should any spiritual leader who injects himself into political matters be exempt?  The history is recorded.  The names are known by all mankind. Their involvement in the matters discussed is undeniable.  Deny if you wish.

No one complains about calling out the nut case Pat Robinson for his ridiculous statements. 

I guess it depends on whose ox is getting gored.
 

And all old vets love discussing their military service and heroic experiences.

If that was directed towards me well, you know what you can do with that.

[MetalMeister]

Spellman?

Did I miss something?  Who is this Spellman? 

Beginner, that's why we create a thread named like "Occam's Razor" so that it does not get confused with "Precious Metals".

We're just applying the KISS principle.........

SW and I, and others, know how to have what on appearance seems like an off topic discussion about pretty much everything without getting all offended and upset with each other.

Look at it this way.  If we all met in London and SS was the host, what do you think we would talk about the third day after finishing fundamentals on the first day and technical analysis on the second day?

Surely you don't think there is nothing more at play in the investment world than fundamentals and technicals?

You know how to click/read the right threads...

Besides, there is going to be a whole lot of money made on the subject of 2012...

When you start seeing governments collapsing and currency failures and a war here and a war there, everyone is going to come running for insight on 2012 preparations.

That's why we started a 2012 thread...

[sidewinder]

It's not often to critique a message, but my take and response is the following.  Matters not the intent of the writer what matters to me is how I receive it and I would assume that same principle would apply to anyone reading a posted message including the ones I write. so while you may post anything you like, some will take it one way others receive the message in an entirely different way. 

What I get out of it is he/she/it took all the talk which, yes implied  church involvement in political affairs chiefly in the above discussion on the Vietnam war. 

My reference to the link in an earlier post refs a book called"Vietnam why did we go" by Avro Manhattan.  The book take an in depth look at the years leading up to final US involvement from French colonial rule till the end.  It is no secret and widely known and publicized that the Diem brothers were hand picked and installed by a group of people consisting of but not limited to the Dulles brothers, Cardinal Spellman, and others.

The Diem's were devout Catholics and in a nation of 20% Catholics and 80% Buddist they ran roughshod over the Buddist up to and even putting them in camps. He destabilized and already unstable situation.  It got so bad as to get Diem Whacked by our own CIA and a series of weak leaders "tried out" for the job untll they finally setteled on General Ky.  and on and on.  The book is critical of some of the church leaders and rightfully so.  I know these facts because although after the Diem rule I did spend much time in that area and got to know the people.  So from that perspective I feel I have a better understanding the the average Joe.  It has nothing to do with military operations but rather with a more that cursory glance at the people of South East Asia, their culture and their folkways. 

I won't get into SEA philosophy and who the people really are but the French did not understand them, Rome didn't, the American political leaders didn't and finally the Russians really didn't.  And for the most part, all of these parties still don't have a clue. 

There's nothing that may have MORE to do with my financial well being and financial decisions than these very subjects.  If I take a shot at your belief system get over it.... and respond as you system dictates.  Address the subject if you wish but anyone who comes at me with some ad hominem argument  gets what he gets. 

It is a rare case here for someone to enter a topic squalling for the teacher to make it all right.   I don't know about contribution here but and average post of .08 suggest not that much to contribute in the first place.  Like YC said there's a reason for the title of these threads. You are not required to enter any thread that concerns a topic not of interest to you.  Simple just look at the one stock thread.  If you just come here to get a "tip" or learn something about trading, fine take all that's offered, you are not required to contribute. 

I really can find better ways of spending my time (had to switch gears on gold while typing this rant).     

[Beginner]

Apologies.  Nothing personal meant.

The Catholic Church has had its day.

Sure, there have been the Spellmans and all the rest and hypocrites galore. 
Sire, the Church has a lot to answer for.  Sure, the Church got itself involved in politics and will probably keep on getting involved but the Church does not count for anything politically any more. The Church now exists in name only.

All I am saying is that there is a new drive and a new power in the world and we should recognize them for what they are and give them due credit or discredit, depending upon your point of view.

I see history quite simply and can sum it up in one sentence:  The meaning of history is the attempt of man to see himself as god.  Of course, first he has first to prove his diety and godhead for he has to conquer all the mysteries in the universe, he has to conquer time and space, he has to conquer the last enemy, death, and he has to discover the origin of life.  A tall order but modern 21st century man is still inspired by ancient Biblical myths such as when the serpent advised Adam and Eve to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge and they would not surely die but become as God.

Maybe I do not get through.  But it is the best I can do.  Peace.