Stock Market December 2009

[onlooker]

Sunseeker:

My kids had a good Christmas.  But, I  say "Bah Humbug!" because I believe that Christmas is only for kids, not adults.  I am way too old to believe that there is a Santa.

Davidslane:

I think that for some American adults they had a better Christmas this year because the Senate passed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act on December 24, 2009.

See:  Health Insurance Reform Passes in the Senate December 24, 2009

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will greatly improve Nevada's health in the following ways:

•   Three years of full funding for the Medicaid expansion;
•   Affordable coverage to 518,000 Nevadans who are uninsured;
•   Premium tax credits available to more than 300,000 Nevadans so they can purchase coverage;
•   Tax credits to 24,000 small businesses in Nevada to make premiums more affordable for their employees;
•   Lower premiums and prescription drug costs for Nevada’s 328,000 Medicare beneficiaries;
•   Increased funding for community health centers;
•   Increased medical residency slots, bringing more doctors to Nevada;
•   And it will help relieve Nevada tax payers from the burden of paying for those who don’t have insurance.

http://www.lvtsg.com/biz_news/publish/fed_gov/article_31430.shtml

and see:  Senate Bill: True Health-Care Reform or the End of Capitalism?  by Aaron Task  December 24, 2009

The Senate bill means "for the first time, most Americans would be required to obtain health insurance, either through their employer or via new, government-regulated exchanges," The Washington Post reports. "Those who can't afford insurance plans would receive federal subsidies. And Medicaid would be vastly expanded to reach millions of low-income children and adults."
~  ~  ~
The bill "doesn't do much about the cost issue, or the access issue," the analyst continues. "But getting more people insurance [and] preventing people from going bankrupt because of health-care issues is a noble goal and this bill will do that."

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/396079/Senate-Bill:-True-Health-Care-Reform-or-the-End-of-Capitalism%3F

IMO, the best Christmas gift the American government can give its people is scrapping its current health care system, and adopting the Single Payer Health Care System.

See:  http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-7251464367470974599&ei=8_U7S-WfCum5lQfopayqDw&q=no+coverage+insurance+us&hl=en&view=3#

But, the American government will never make such a radical departure, unless you believe that there is a Santa. 

[jjj000]

IMO, the best Christmas gift the American government can give its people is scrapping its current health care system, and adopting the Single Payer Health Care System.

onlooker, we need LESS insurance, not more.  The problem we have is cost of SERVICES, not cost of insurance. 

Health insurance should be like homeowner's insurance... basically only covering catastrophic care.  The fact that health insurance covers everything from a simple checkup to a bottle of pills to an x-ray is ridiculous, wasteful, and entirely contributes to cost of services now out of control.  You can get a modern x-ray now for free at many dentist offices.  Why does it "cost $700" to get one at a doctor?

If homeowner's insurance were like our current health insurance, your homeowner's policy would cover everything from new lightbulbs to a new roof.  And lightbulbs would all cost $250 each, because hey, who cares, my insurance will cover it!!  Or it would be like an auto insurance policy covering everything from gas to new tires to a new engine.  Who in their right mind would pay for that???

We need less insurance, not more.  We need to fix federal education funding so medical school costs don't continue to explode exponentially, and we need to fix the while malpractice insurance/tort reform issue.  Start there, don't start with more government fattening mandated taxpayer money pits

ok, I'm done.  Sorry

[davidslane]

Just for the record, the majority of those 2000 pages in the health care bill is all about changing how Medicare reimburses hospitals and doctors to reimbursing based on outcome, not number of services rendered.

This is how the Dems expect to cut $500 billion from Medicare over 10 years.

A lot of research went into those details, so here's hoping it will work.

[sidewinder]

so, you have apparently read the document?   

[sunseeker]

As I have commented before anything State run is inefficient (and given examples from personal experience). Why seek excellence when your bread is already buttered?

Here in the UK we have the state run “National Health System.”
The doctor’s surgeries are full to overflowing with retired people (who don’t have to pay for their treatment). Pills are being prescribed willy nilly. You hear them discussing how many pills that they are on. It’s almost a badge of honour (I'm on 15 pills a day. Well I'm on 20 pills day etc). They have a joint replacement and after that they get disabled stickers. When they didn’t have them before the operation. That seems to suggests that they are worse off after the operation than before it. Not really it’s just another badge of honour to grumble about. I have mentioned before that I worked as an electrical engineer. Often we would be called to inspect homes for safety after the occupant had passed away. One thing you notice in that job and that is the unused packets of pills stretching back for years in many cases. I conclude that a visit to the doctors is now more of a social event than a necessity for them (but one any working person is paying the price for). Once I had a chest infection and was coughing blood. I was told that I had to wait a week to see the doctor. I told the receptionist the situation and I wasn’t prepared to wait. Come back in two days then she said. I said no I’ll wait. I stood my ground and waited 3 hours to see a doctor. In the meantime people who didn’t seem to be in any need of an immediate appointment where getting them (bearing in mind that I was employed and paying and they weren’t). Well they’re regulars I was told. It’s difficult to get push your point more forcefully when you’re feeling very unwell, but I complained afterwards. I didn’t feel that it made any difference though.
My mother in law had a heart attack. Whilst visiting her in hospital the alarm on her monitor went off I scoured the hospital for 15 minutes trying to find someone to attend her. Eventually I found a nurse who panicked say how long has she been like this?
More recently a relative needed an exploratory operation. The cause was found and he was eventually sent home where he had a relapse and was readmitted to hospital. All well and good but without much warning they sent him down to theatre for another exploratory operation. The rub is that they didn’t know that he’d already had one. They gave him a blood test and pronounced him OK until he told them that he had received 9 pints of blood over three days.
I witnessed a lady tell a nursing sister (not an ordinary nurse but a nursing sister) that her oxygen was running out. She called another nurse and told her to replace it. It turned out that neither the nurse nor the nursing sister knew how to replace her oxygen cylinder. The lady on reception who was a volunteer worker that day hurriedly stepped in to do it for them.

Even though this conscientious nurse did not receive any complaints for her actions by either the patients in her care or their relatives (in fact many came out and to applaud her courage):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/apr/16/panorama-nurse-margaret-haywood-struck-off
A warning to whistle blowers?

I could tell you of other incidents but I think that you’ve got the idea. You just watch the over paid managers and all the extra office workers come in at the expense of the dedicated medical professionals that you probably have right now. The most dedicated medical professionals eventually flee in their droves to the private sector or other countries not because they really want to but because they’ll be so disillusioned by the system. Your government is probably committed to make it work now but you’ll get there. Just give it time.

Thankfully we are in a position to pay privately for any treatment we get. I suggest that you position yourselves to do the same. Finally bear in mind Sidewinders post about the quality of treatment in Asia.


Quote from: sidewinder on December 05, 2009, 09:12:03 AM
Spent lots of time in Thailand and Viet Nam Punter.  I tell people about the Thai system and they don't believe it.  'course the way they crash cars and dump motocys they need a good doctor close by.  I would not hesitate going to a Thai hospital for treatment.  LOL all one has to do is look at the Lady Boy (Kathoey) population.  Any medical system that can take a ugly Thai dude and change him into a stunning babe cant be all bad.   
 

Very very funny.

But in all seriousness SW makes a damn good point.

ATB

[sunseeker]

The crash can happen again
Robert Johnson (Financial Reform Roosevelt Institute) on derivatives and legislation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHjIuq07rxA

The legislation is not in place and despite election promises not enough is being done to prevent another crash.

ATB 

[onlooker]

Sunseeker:

IMO, the best Christmas gift the American government can give its people is scrapping its current health care system, and adopting the Single Payer Health Care System.

When I gave the abovementioned comment, you were the one person who I thought who might oppose my comment.  You just took a little longer time to respond.  I am glad you finally did it.  I must say that you certainly did not disappoint with your Jan 3 backlash comments.  LOL.   

I will not dispute your stories.  I would say that there are probably many variations to your stories from Canadians who used our single payer health care system.

As a manner of fact, I have horror hospital stories that tops yours.  I had a next door neighbour in Toronto who went in for knee surgery, and somehow died.  According to her devastated long time partner, the surgery was considered to be minor surgery so it was staffed with all medical residents.  He was told that for some unexplained reason, she suffered a heart attack on the operating table.  He guessed that all the medical residents PANIC, instead of being on the ball like the frictional TV shows “ER” or “House.”  He will never know exactly happened because the hospital had put up a wall of silence.  So the only way he will find out anything is through the courts.

Canadian hospitals are not the cleanest in the world.  Some Canadians have gone into their world renown local hospitals hoping for a cure, may have died doing it.  A twisted concept, eh???

See:  http://canadianmedicaljournal.ca/cgi/content/full/171/1/19

Still, I prefer the Canadian single payer health care over the American system because we Canadians know our health system is far from perfect, but at least we will not go bankrupt by seeking medical services at our hospitals or that we will be denied medical treatment if we have no money.

For me, the Canadian healthcare system has been a blessing.   Once my two week old son at that time, was diagnosed to have a heart condition (percutaneous lateral microdiscectomy).  He was admitted for surgery and hospitalized for more than one week.  He received excellent medical services 24 / 7.  I did not go bankrupt because of my son’s required surgery.   

In 2008, I went to emergency for severe throbbing head pains.  They kept me hospitalized for three days.  The medical staff eventually determined that it was not a blood clot but a bad case of meningitis.  I was not made to feel sheepish about my coming to emergency seeking for treatment, and the costs to stay at the hospital was not required to be given to me.

Just this year, I had corrective surgery done to both my eyes.  Before, I went under, I counted at least four medical professional were required to do the less than half hour eye surgery.  The surgery will not financially impact me in any manner.

Perhaps, I have been very lucky with the Canadian healthcare system.  But I really do cherish my single payer health care system.     I do not feel the need to seek for more private Canadian health care clinics or health insurance coverages.  I think there are many other Canadians who feel the same way.

See:  Health care in Canada
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Public Opinion

Canadians strongly support the health system's public rather than for-profit private basis, and a 2009 poll by Nanos Research found 86.2% of Canadians surveyed supported or strongly supported "public solutions to make our public health care stronger."

A 2009 Harris/Decima poll found 82% of Canadians preferred their healthcare system to the one in the United States, more than ten times as many as the 8% stating a preference for a US-style health care system for Canada[5] while a Strategic Counsel survey in 2008 found 91% of Canadians preferring their healthcare system to that of the U.S.  In the same poll, when asked “overall the Canadian health care system was performing very well, fairly well, not very well or not at all?” 70% of Canadians rated their system as working either "well" or "very well".  A 2003 Gallup poll found only 25% of Americans are either "very" or "somewhat" satisfied with "the availability of affordable healthcare in the nation," versus 50% of those in the UK and 57% of Canadians.  Those "very dissatisfied" made up 44% of Americans, 25% of respondents of Britons, and 17% of Canadians.

In November 2004, Canadians voted Tommy Douglas, Canada's "father of Medicare," the Greatest Canadian of all time following a nationwide contest sponsored by the CBC.

[jjj000]

onlooker - just out of curiousity, do you live in a large city or a small town?

From what I've heard and read over the past year or so-- single payer, national health, etc. can function fine if you live in a small town where demand on local hospitals is relatively low.  But put that same plan into a large city like London or Toronto or New York... and it becomes an overloaded, broken nightmare...

Of course this just accounts for receiving services, not paying for it all on a national scale

[sidewinder]

I guess this government has really always been a load false promises to the citizen.  I just located my 5th generation Grandfather's declaration for revolutionary war pension.  It is dated 1832.  He started militia service April 19th 1776 and was 72 years old before he got the pension LOL.  I am sure he got some pay but all I can find was $2.50 he was paid after his first tour and he used that in the 3 1/2 months it took him to get home.  What I find interesting is he lived to age 88.  I guess all the walking he did in his youth and the war put him in pretty good shape.  The amount of territory covered by this group of infantry militia is unbelievable.  apparently they would put in 3-6 months of duty and go home for 3 months.  The majority of the contacts they had were with Indians who I guess saw a chance to run the settlers off with the help of the British.  

These guys marched from Pittsylvania County Virginia to man a fort in what is now Kingsport Tenn, crossing the Blue Ridge mountains and Primarily engaged Cherokee Indians in their first tour.  Paid $2.50 told to go home and were called up a few months later for another 6 month camping trip during part of which they guarded General Washington's estate.  That's about a 500 mile round trip.  Damn tough boys.  

Still trying to find out what the pension amounted to but no luck so far.  There is mention in county records of his widow making application for bounty land granted to Revolutionary War Veterans but no indication of an award. Seems the government did finally do something for the Vets of our first war guess that's a positive thing.  (I really can be positive sometimes)

In the continuing American war saga my Family has it all covered.  Revolutionary war, Civil War, Both my Grandfathers in WWI, My dad went ashore at Iwo Jima and where ever else the 4th marine division went during WWII and I did two tours in the SE asia war games in Vietnam.  Dad's baby brother got to visit Korea so I would say we had it covered.  

I would like to put and end to the trend.  My kids are old enough to not be involved in Bush's (now Obama's) war.  The grandsons I worry about.  The four year old lives with me so I can teach him better sense if I live long enough.  The eight year old is still back in the south and is already to be a Cav scout any day.  I need to work on him a bit.  However, they need to understand it is their duty to DEFEND this nation against ALL enemies foreign and DOMESTIC.  I predict my ashes will be scattered in two oceans and two continents before they may find the need to make decisions but as long as I remain lucid I keep a log for those boys make reference to because I know their parents are too dumbed down to explain the big picture to them.  LOL  Hopefully, the mess this country has gotten itself into will end peacefully and the American people once again lead the world in peace and progress.  The greatest threat I see to peace on earth right now is from a Theocracy.  The world needs to stop being politically correct and bring the sword down upon any radical religious group that uses terrorism against any other nation.  UN or not, every nation that wants final peace will participate or be held back by the same sword.  We have weapons most people would not even be able to understand, I say either bring our troop out of these areas of conflict or use whatever force necessary to completely overpower our enemies and render them unable to mount even a rudimentary attack.  Give our Generals a mission and politicians get the hell out of the way.  I am sick of watching the waste of our military assets.  (that's our youth coming back in body bags).  At first as it was in my generation the sight of the coffins was novel and unusual.  Now you hardly see any mention on the news and the casualties continue.  The mother of the first casualty in Bush's war cried no harder than the mother of Specialist Jason Johnston who departed this life on 26 December 2009.  (I'm sure he is not the latest casualty but you get the idea).  Stop this waste President Obama, either take the sword to the throat of the enemy or bring these troops out of harms way.  Congress pass a law banning use of civilian mercenary troops (there are currently about as many armed civilians in Afghanistan as regular legitimate forces.)

This will never happen because the truth is we would have to implement a draft if that would occur and we know the spineless in Washington will not do that.  

Now while I am on a Saturday afternoon roll.  I saw a lady on TV the other day, bless her soul the mother of a young trooper KIA in Bush's war.  This lady is stirring up quite a stink about being being buried next to her  boy in a national cemetery.  He was her only son and I cannot imagine the grief this poor woman feels.  I do understand her desire, but I would as a combat veteran say this to Mrs. Anderson.  Ma'am, you beloved son has been placed on hallowed ground in a place with his brothers.  One thing you may never be able to comprehend is the bond between men who serve in combat together.  This is their place and you must let him go and rest with his brothers.  He would want it that way.  Those who have made that supreme sacrifice deserve the peace these sanctuaries of heroes provides.  Please stop and think about what you may inflict upon his memory by these very public actions.  Please let him rest in peace.

 I know this has been off the proper subject but hey, it's the weekend and you guys are a sounding board.  
  

[onlooker]

When I think about soldiers, this simple audio-visual comes to my mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohXsdbF-7jc

This quintessential anti war song was originally penned by Canadian First Nations singer-songwriter Buffy Sainte-Marie.  Here are her thoughts on her lyrics.  See:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGWsGyNsw00

War has no winners.

[sunseeker]

What annoys me most about any state run system is the waste.
 Top heavy in administrative jobs at the expense of the people who provide the real care and service. 
The lack of competition leads to suppliers of goods overpricing their products.
You can buy the same drugs and other products cheaper in other countries. There are many products here in the UK that you can only get hold of by visiting the doctor and getting a prescription for them. In Spain for instance you can buy those same products over the counter after a quick consultation with the pharmacist, and often you can get them much cheaper. Expert help without the hassle or expense.

I don’t pretend to know about the Canadian system but jjjoo touched on the point about the level of service you receive being dependant on where you live. We call it “The Postcode Lottery.” Despite being a state run system the level of treatment that you can expect to receive varies considerably depending on which area you live in. One area might sanction you to receive a drug or treatment and another will not. This is despite the fact that you have paid the same level of contributions as someone living in that other area.

I suspect that as in many other state run or state funded departments some people get backhanders for accepting less than favourable terms. I have witnessed that sort of behaviour on occasion and it sickens me (when offered I refused to benefit personally). As I pointed out in my previous post it’s only detrimental to you or the company that you work for to become a whistle blower. Someone I worked with who was new to the job said he was going to tell the man at the top about something. I told him not to waste his breath as he already knows about it and gains himself financially from it.

The bottom line is that we will never live in a perfect world, but I believe that a system where you have free choice and competition from many different providers for your needs delivers better value. I acknowledge the need to provide a safety net for those who for no fault of their own are less fortunate. The key words there are “through no fault of their own”. We seem to have got to a point where an ever growing number of people have become unwilling rather than unable to make the necessary provisions to help themselves. That is to the detriment of any conscientious honest hard working person trying to do what they believe is right for themselves, their loved ones and for the overall prosperity of the country that they live in. Those people are just being taken advantage of.

ATB

[sidewinder]

 
Onlooker, of course wars have winners. Just look through history. The US exists today because we went to war.

 And the song blaming soldiers for war is preposterous. why not blame religion, or race, technology no difference. Of course we all would prefer not to go to war but what do you do with a religious faction who make no bones about it. "If you don't believe as we do then we want you dead." leaders declare non-believers as infidels and bid their subjects to kill infidels. Don't know about you, but this infidel is rather aggressive when it comes to certain things and living without threat from anyone is one of the things I would take certain risk for. These Muslim Clerics running their mouth is one thing, but when their "flock" begin killing my friends time for talk is over. This crap is not going to go away peacefully until they have either 1. been eliminated or 2. Thinned out enough to render them harmless.

No nation can do without its soldiers.  None.  Any nation without a standing army is vulnerable to any that would take all they have.  Sorry but that is reality.

   

[onlooker]

Sidewinder:

I have a two and four plus year old kids, plus another one on the way.  Here's my imagined future life for them:

http://www.teachpeace.com/children%20peace%20world%20sm.JPG

[sidewinder]

Onlooker I cannot see anything wrong with that, in fact I see everything right with that.  Unfortunately reality says otherwise.

As long a man in this form occupies the planet there will be conflict.  Outside an event like "The Day The Earth Stood Still" depicted it will remain as it is .... or worse.  I to, wish for our offspring to enjoy peace but being practical and realistic know the likelihood of that happening is slim to none.  The next best thing is to keep them from becoming cannon fodder for nitwits feeding huge egos.  At the same time, they must learn to recognize real danger and be prepared to defend that which they hold dear.  This is the difficult part and proper education plays the most important role. Knowing the history of man and where various societies went wrong gives young folks a head start in this journey.  Current events are a moving target, who knows what will happen next. 

I appreciate the fact you are a peaceful person.  I am too.  Although you may not think so, I abhor war and put pressure on my representatives prior to both Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom to not get involved.  I never miss a chance to cut into them about this issue.  However, some things are justified though much of what we have done in this mess is not.  Shades of grey all over the place.  I guess I am just frustrated, George Bush embraced a "Tar Baby" on behalf my country and made some of the worse decisions a leader could make.  Now, there really is no end in sight. 

I guess if I were in charge today I would bring every troop overseas home and leave the rest of the world a message similar to the one Clint Eastwood gave the towns people in the movie "Unforgiven".  Goes something like this. "All right, I'm coming out. Any man I see out there, I'm gonna shoot him. Any sumbitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only gonna kill him, but I'm gonna kill his wife, all his friends, and burn his damn house down".  and mean it.  ..............  I am not about to be in charge anytime in the near future so that won't happen. 

More reality .... it looks like Yemen can't control the terrorist factions so one scenario is we get "invited" to help out there.  If it keeps up and there is no invitation we may "invite" ourselves.  Hey, if you do that may as well go back to Somalia and knock out the pirates also.  Nutty world isn't it?